iDesign @ UCI

Welcome Message To New Students

Interested in Origins?
Join the club.


Mission Statement

FAQ

Organization


MISSION STATEMENT:

iDesign Club at UCI seeks to foster scientific discussions regarding the origins of life and the universe. Theories such as Darwinian evolution, intelligent design, and creationism will be critically analyzed.


FAQ:

Q: WHAT IS THIS CLUB ABOUT?

Origins! We are interested in discussing alternative theories to the origins of biological structures. While the current mainstream theory in academia is Darwinian evolution, we would also like to discuss other viable ideas, such as intelligent design.

Q: WHO CAN BE A MEMBER OF THIS CLUB?

Anybody! Students of Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Mathematics, Computer Science, Engineering, Anthropology, and Philosophy may especially find this club intriguing. However, you do not need to have a science background to be an effective member of this club.

Q: WHEN AND WHERE ARE CLUB MEETINGS?

Please check blog entries for time and place.

Q: WHAT IS THE MEMBERSHIP FEE?

Nothing! There are no membership dues.

Q: IS THIS CLUB BIASED TOWARDS ONE SPECIFIC THEORY OF ORIGINS?

Perhaps. Ponder the name of this club. This club is ideologically the mirror of another club at UCI, the Students for Science and Skepticism. However, our main goal is to give a balanced view of the controversy regarding the origins of life so that students can come to an informed conclusion themselves.

Q: WHAT DOES THE LETTER "i" STAND FOR IN iDESIGN?

Good question -- the answer is intelligent.

Q: WHERE IS THE CLUB CONSTITUTION?

We adhere to the minimum constitution that was provided by the Dean of Students. In the future, we plan to draft a comprehensive constitution and bylaws.

Q: IS iDESIGN AFFILIATED WITH ANY ORGANIZATION?

No. However, we are friends with the IDEA Center


ORGANIZATION:

PRESIDENT:
Arthur
Information and Computer Science

VICE PRESIDENT:
Brian
Biology / English

DIRECTOR:
Andrew
English / Economics



Friday, July 07, 2006

On Evolutionary Explanations

Evolutionists and design theorists often have an extremely different notion of what constitutes "proof" of evolution, and this causes a good deal of confusion. Evolutionists complain that the standard of proof required by design theorists is unreasonably high, and design theorists complain that the proofs of evolution in the literature are not proofs at all. You can guess where I fall on that spectrum.

If you pay close attention, whenever evolutionists are engaged in listing the "proofs" for evolution, they almost exclusively list evidence for common descent. Ask them for the mountain of evidence that necessity and stochastic processes are responsible for making the transitions between the similar forms which they just showed you, and they may draw a few pictures and connect them with arrows, but that is all you are likely to get.

Take this model of the evolutionary origin of the bacterial flagellum. It is long, detailed, and testable. But just what aspects of the model are testable? Precisely the aspects related to homology. The testable claims are about which components may be more ancient that others, which structures may have been intermediate between the Type-III secretory system and the bacterial flagellum, etc. The question of whether natural selection acting on random variation is powerful enough to make the hypothetical transitions is never addressed. Instead it is assumed that proposing intermediates and telling a story about how each might provide an incremental fitness benefit is enough.

I'm not convinced. You see, I'm a computer scientist. I'm used to looking at incredibly complex, interdependent systems at a high level of abstraction and implementing modifications at the very lowest level. There is very rarely a correlation, even in the most well-designed systems, between what changes appear straightforward at a high level of abstraction and what changes are actually straightforward to implement (by "straightforward" I mean changes which do not require a large number of compensatory changes to other parts of the system). There is not enough detail in the above model (or in most evolutionary models) to evaluate whether or not natural selection is sufficiently powerful to get the job done.

This raises an interesting question: How specific does a model have to be to be convincing? That is, how small do the proposed changes have to be to render it likely that natural selection could have filled in the gaps? I don't know of any formal answer to this, but whatever the answer might be it must be able to test natural selection, not merely assert its ability to move between hypothetical intermediate forms described at a high level of abstraction. Ironically, the only people who seem to be interested in doing this sort of thing are design theorists.

Posted by Wedge at 12:19 PM

5 Comments:

Blogger Doctor Logic said...
Wedge,

Seen as computing mechanisms, life forms would be analog computers, not digital ones. You're used to integer looping constructs, boolean conditionals, and shared boolean flags. Digital systems tend to be brittle even when they're highly modular.

Life isn't like that. It's a collection of interacting statistical mechanisms, so mutations can sometimes affect gene expression without forcing architectural changes. In fact, many of the analog values in the system are naturally variable during normal operation, and mutations can alter the elasticity and averages of those operating values.

Think of the system as a very large collection of fuzzy logic rules. We are free to modify parameters of the rule-base and affect efficiencies in various areas without total breakdown. Furthermore, co-option and redundancy could allow for new fuzzy logic mechanisms to take hold.

Computer scientists don't have a lot of experience with analog computing in general. At least I don't. I only studied a toy analog system many years ago. How's your skill with analog?
7/09/2006 7:42 PM
Blogger William Bradford said...
What natural forces cause analog computers to "arise"? If a functional one exists what simulates a prokaryotic organism and what mutations would simulate a transition from a prokaryotic to a eukaryotic cell?
7/10/2006 6:39 PM
Blogger Wedge said...
doctor_logic,
I think the correlation between digital computation and life is greater than you say. In a very real sense cells interpret and execute the digital instructions stored in DNA – they just use base 4 instead of 2. You are right that life is much less deterministic/discrete than most software, but I'm not sure how this affects the relevant issues (dependencies, tolerances, etc.).

My analog is not so good, but if analog systems have these (I'm tempted to say magical) properties which allow them to be both incredibly complex and easily modifiable (even by stochastic processes), then software engineering really missed the boat. Can you imagine Bill Gates writing a "make Windows not suck" cost function, and letting the software fix itself?

I understand that the variance inherent in certain biological systems (e.g. gene expression networks) allows for extra "give", but it doesn't make dependencies go away, so I have trouble seeing it as fundamentally more modifiable than a digital model.
7/10/2006 9:48 PM
Blogger William Bradford said...
I posted the first of a two part response to this at:

http://intelligent-sequences.blogspot.com/
7/11/2006 10:52 PM
Blogger William Bradford said...
This post entitled Evolutionary Intermediates contains further comments on your excellent post.
8/29/2006 9:45 PM

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PRO-DESIGN SITES:

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Panda's Thumb
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NAS: Science and Creationism


PRO-CREATION SITES:

Answers in Genesis
Institute for Creation Research
A.E. Wilder Smith
Reasons to Believe
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CreationWiki


OTHER INTERESTING SITES:

American Scientific Affiliation
Richard Sternberg


ANTEATER LINKS:

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